Who was the Villian of Kill Bill

Discussions related to Quentin Tarantino's Kill Bill Vol. 1 and Vol. 2.
geesehoward4life
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Joined: 29 May 2005, 03:35

14 Jul 2005, 01:17 #1

Okay I would like to know what you all think of who the villian was in Kill Bill. We all know that in Volume One we are told about the Wedding and the Bride getting "killed" by her own cohorts and Bill, but by the end of Volume Two we find out that beatrix panicks while on assignment when she learns she is pregnant and leaves the assignment unfinished, disappears and runs to El Paso while carrying Bill's baby unknown to him. So then my question is who was the villian in Kill Bill?
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Menace415
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 12:35

14 Jul 2005, 04:41 #2

wutchu mean geese? the villain she was suppose to go after when she found she was pregnant? i thought it was just bill and the rest of the monkeys. lol.CK FAN BRIGADE BEEEYAAATCH!ImageImage
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MrKuriyama
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Joined: 26 Feb 2005, 04:27

16 Jul 2005, 13:01 #3

GoGo can villanise my anytime
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geesehoward4life
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Joined: 29 May 2005, 03:35

30 Jul 2005, 19:52 #4

It's pretty much exactly what I said. Menace you know the full story on why I would even ask this and I expect to be finish handwriting the rest of the book (ironically) in early September which would mean that it took almost a year for me to write a complete follow-up to the movies.
Either way, the reason for my question is because of the information that is revealed in Volume Two... Tarantino waits till Volume Two to show you a quick snippet of what ACTUALLY HAPPENED to Uma's character that leads to the opening scene in Volume One of her being beaten and shot in the head...
She was on assignment (if you saw KB V2 then you already know) and she found out she was pregnant. She convinces the woman who was sent to intercept her to let her go by letting her see her pregnancy test, she then abandons the assignment and disappears.
I have seen very heated debates at different sites and by various film critiques that Uma's behavior at that point completely removes her grounds of revenge because she brought the entire incident on herself by her own actions.
Not to mention that one reviewer made sure to point out that Tarantino stated that Pai Mei is THE PAI MEI from the old Shaw Brothers movies?
Sorry but if that was the case Uma would NOT have been taught the 5 Point Palm (which is 5 steps) OR the Infamous 100 Steps (which is JUST WRONG) also Poison would NOT have worked on Pai Mei so Elle's attempt to poison him?
Either way Pai Mei was as evil as the day is long and had no qualms about letting students, friends, compatriots, whatever!
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Plus the fact that Bill kept bringing these "women" to him to train. The original Shaw Brother Pai Mei... sorry but he was not a Credit Union and Bill's little "scuff marks" in KB V2 would have been far worse for constantly bothering him.
So that was amnd still is my question. Who was the villain in KB?
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Menace415
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 12:35

31 Jul 2005, 21:42 #5

now that i think about it, it seems as though Uma brought it upon herself. but then again, bill DIDNT have to react the way he did. i guess, both parties ARE at fault and neither of them could justify there actions.
Bill - "and for the record, making somebody think theyre dead when theyre not is quite cruel". he sed sumthin like that. lol. so he busted a cap in her crown, saying he overreacted.
and its Beatrixs fault for not goin back to Bill to explain her situation. and lets not forget, her position requires that of her becuz Bill is the boss. so already you know her "loyalty" (if i may put it that way), isnt so great to him. Bills brother pointed that out. "she buffaloed bill" and "bill always thought she was smart, she was just smart for a blonde". with that being said, Budd knew bill was dealing in over his head. she wasnt one of the simpleminded assassins like the rest of her crew. and also, when Pai Mei taught her the 5 point thingy majigger, she didnt tell Bill.
so to get back to the point of who is the villain, arguably you could say Beatrix. but since the movie revolved around her instead of the assassination squad, it would seem that you would find her revenge one-sided. basically in favor of her.
now if it were the other way around, where they show Bill crying his eyes out, remembering the good ol times with her and so forth, you would get the impression of bill being caring and loving. if quentin were to focus on Bills emotions a little deeper, then i betcha money you wouldnt blame bill for doing what he did, becuz you would probably feel the same way.
what if you were led to believe that someone you loved and been intimate with were dead, you would be devastated right? later to find out, that person is not dead but getting married to some jerk and being pregnant with your kid. i would be super duper heated. she DELIBERATELY led bill to believe she was dead.
and you know what her excuse was? "as soon as youd find out, youd claim her" but how was she suppose to make that judgment for THEIR child? it would require for them to talk about it together dont cha think?
so who is the Villain???

*i think i made a little sense right geese?* lol. CK FAN BRIGADE BEEEYAAATCH!ImageImage
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geesehoward4life
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Joined: 29 May 2005, 03:35

02 Aug 2005, 15:46 #6

Definietly looks like it to me. I found it interesting when I asked the same question while I was renting a video the other day, the clerk, in his mid-twenties was stymied by it.
Up until I asked that question he raved about Kill Bill until I asked him to actually think about the movie. His face kinda darkened like it was a foreign concept... thinking about what he actually saw.
Then he started putting two and two together then we had a long conversation about the film and he said he had a better appreciation for it when he actually thought about what Volume 2 implied to Volume 1.
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darkonc
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005, 14:56

06 Dec 2005, 07:56 #7

Beatrix (The Bride) is the victor of the movie, but there are very few characters who aren't villains (and the most obvious of those is the two daughters). The main characters are assassins.. People who will kill whomever you point them at as long as either their pocketbook or their emotions are full enough. The cast is then filled in with pimps and gangsters.
I'd say that the most sympathetic adult characters other than the bridal party are "Charlie Brown San" and his slightly hen-peckish wife. After that, I'd be pretty much falling to extras, like Estoban's harem.
This film is situated in the dungeon of human morality. That's part of the reason why there's very little upset at the death of most of them. They're all morally expendable -- so sit back, watch the arteries spurt, and enjoy.
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geesehoward4life
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Joined: 29 May 2005, 03:35

06 Dec 2005, 16:42 #8

True, they are all villains, but I notice that most people don't really take a hard look at it till they are asked who is "the villain?" Morally bankrupt or not, the movie tries to paint a high ground for Beatrix supposedly being wronged, but in Volume Two we find out that she bolted and then lied.Image
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Not cool. Not cool at all, especially since they are assassins.
Oh and thanks for responding, I thought it was a typo or something (it is EZ Board after all) when I SAW THAT someone had actually put a response in the Kill Bill V1, V2 section.
And actually I was rather upset by the death of most of Beatrix's victims and the clear lack of explanation that was given. From Vernita missing a non-moving Beatrix. To Gogo being foolish enough to close in on her unnecessarily, down to the very bland fight with O-Ren (which was a huge rip-off, I expected better, MUCH BETTER than what I got out of that fight).
Not to mention that Budd actually does Kill her or at least has not one (Rock salt anyone) but two (in a BURIED ALIVE MATCH) chances to kill her dead, then yet another anti-climatic battle (like the one with O-Ren) between B and Bill. It was kinda hard for me to enjoy something so... sandpapery... against my face... but what really made it worse is that I could see what Tarantino was trying to do and then it was like he said (which he did) "This is too complex, I just want mindless mania."
But to me he had so much material to work with. I mean can you really imagine the life that O-Ren had alllllll the way up to taking over the Yakuza. If Gogo's idea of being a bodyguard is look left, then right, then left... how in God's name did she get that far? Why did Vernita miss and was she honestly in love with the guy she married or was she still doing side jobs for Bill? Why was Budd out in the desert and why did Budd dislike Bill so much to refuse his help? Was Bill screwing all of the Deadly Vipers or just some? Why did Pai Mei accept yet another of Bill's wenches? What is the story behind pathetically weak Sophie not so Fatale and what is it that ultimately got her relegated to secretary for O-Ren and... when did she meet O-Ren and how? Since Yuki was written in, but got scrapped does she tie into anything at all? Why didn't Tarantino release the book that he said he would BEFORE the movies came out in order to give some background to this otherwise "Gone in 60 seconds" that we see in these two movies? Why no book afterwards?
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These things are what I think allows people to like the movies as long as nobody really tries to "look at" the movies and Tarantino clearly wanted that with Volume Two, but he had already prevented that when he made Volume One the way it was.
To me Beatrix is the actual villain, which is kind of interesting thanks to all of the work that Tarantino does to try to paint an opposite picture. The movie plays like a warped "Five Deadly Venoms."
One last thing, why didn't Hanzo go after Bill after he heard about what he was doing? Did Hanzo ever go after Bill? What about the fact that in the animated sequence we see the fact that Bill is the one that Kills O-Ren's father AND we see that she saw that ring on Bill's finger, yet she ultimately goes to work for Bill.
Look forward to some sorta feed back on all of that, thanks!
Later!
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Menace415
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 12:35

25 Dec 2005, 09:40 #9

yeah what the hell got dammit! damn movies with no explanation!Image CK FAN BRIGADE BEEEYAAATCH!ImageImage
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geesehoward4life
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Joined: 29 May 2005, 03:35

16 Jan 2006, 07:49 #10

Not funny ImageD">
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